I love teaching MBA students. They are typically more experienced, motivated, and professional than undergraduate students. I learn something new from my students every time I teach an MBA class, which is exciting.
In every MBA class I have ever taught, the majority of people are to one degree or another good performers, a few are stellar, and a few in every class I’ve ever taught really don’t belong in a reputable MBA program.
And every few years, you meet the student from hell. Here is an excerpt of an e-mail that I received recently from an MBA student:
Professor Simmons:
The shortfalls we have as your students are directly related to your shortcomings as an instructor. My A- is simply a reminder to you that your instructing was not exemplary and certainly not up to par with the best instructors.
I am halfway through my MBA and the lowest grade I have received up to your class was one A-. I had no problem with that A- because I felt it was justified. I hope that you can improve your shortcoming as an instructor in the future for your students’ academic sake.
This class could have been such a good learning opportunity for students, and if instructed properly could have been so beneficial to us in our career paths. Unfortunately all I learned from this course is that grading can be quite “subjective” and not related to work quality at all. Best wishes to you and an improved future as an instructor.
Please understand that this person earned an A- in my course. I had sixteen MBA students in the course, and twelve of the sixteen earned an A-; four earned an A, and zero earned a grade lower than an A-. I created a system that got all of my students to the A- level, yet I failed them?
Somehow, this person feels very bitter about not earning an A, and it’s entirely my fault. The attitude conveyed in these words is totally void of personal responsibility and accountability, which by the way was one of my main messages in the class. I think it is safe to say that this person missed that message.
After my initial irritation over this e-mail wore off, my fascination kicked in. Even though I make my living explaining to others human behavior at work, every once in a while I just have to scratch my head in amazement. How can someone be so narcissistic that an A-, which was an excellent grade both absolutely and relatively, became the impetus for very unprofessional and borderline bullying behavior? This person also obviously has an extreme external locus of control, so how is it that they continue to achieve or at least manage the impression of achievement?
Can you imagine having to manage this person at work? Can you imagine this person managing others?
What do you see in the words of this person’s e-mail? Please share your thoughts with me.
Related Posts:
I Am Responsible For My Own Success And Failures And For Continuing To Learn From Them
Attributions: Explaining Our Own Behavior
Secure Attachment: Another Positive Personality Trait
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Sounds like an “ick” factor loaded with great learning opportunity for your students! Invite him to give the spirit of his note some purpose by presenting it in a live situational-leadership exercise for your class, casting him in character as a job candidate, employee, co-worker and manager. A recent experience comes to mind: golfing with an outstanding player who led the outing with a great score—though perhaps not his personal best. He blamed the course, weather, and others in his foursome at various stages of his game. He added an “ick” factor to the day by outrageously competing with himself, his surroundings and with others. It seems to me this student manifests strong competition with you by offering a pseudo peer review equivalent to the “minus” of his grade—a childish quid pro quo of sorts. Of course, this type of behavior is usually not isolated (in work or in life) but the class—and perhaps even this student—could acquire valuable insight based on the example he graciously provided. I would definitely sign up for that session!
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Bret L. Simmons Reply:
August 21st, 2010 at 8:42 am
Fortunately, Debra, the class is behind us. Someone like this could never get the value of an exercise you describe because you first have to want value. All this person wanted was the satisfaction of feeling superior by trying to make me feel inferior. By doing so, any real performance issues can remain buried. Thanks! Bret
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I’m just shaking my head…. What a jerk!
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Bret L. Simmons Reply:
August 21st, 2010 at 8:39 am
Welcome, Britty. I too had to shake my head, but also have to hold my tongue. This person is free to label me, but I must refrain from doing the same except with technical terms (e.g. narcissistic) that help me understand the behavior. Thanks! Bret
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This email would be laughable were it not for two important facts: First, this Gen Y student will prove to be a dysfunctional employee for some unfortunate company in the next few years, generating a management backlash when he or she receives the obligatory performance review and blames his or her manager if the review is not of A+ variety. Second, at a macro level this attitude of many (?) MBA students does not bode well for the United States when it comes to restoring the country’s global competitiveness.
If America’s (and I would add Canada’s) emerging generation of new corporate leaders is so self-serving in place of national interest, our collective future standard of living is not terribly optimistic.
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Bret L. Simmons Reply:
August 21st, 2010 at 8:48 am
Concur, Jim, I would hate to be manager that has to try to provide constructive feedback to this person. Anything really difficult would be construed as personal and with the careful use of labels the real performance issues will never get addressed. And beyond words, you should have witnessed this persons body language and facial gestures during the class. They were equally unprofessional. Thanks, Jim!
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Hi Bret,
I was fascinated by your student’s behavior because I have of late been thinking about the rare clients I’ve had over the years who are unwilling to look at the weaknesses that may show up for them on MBTI or 360’s. Sometimes, they are more than willing to accept the strengths only or sometimes they are even indifferent to those too. They often find it difficult to “self select” their MBTI type and if they take the MBTI a second time can come up quite different than they did the first.
I’ve noticed that these clients find fault with others quite readily. They seem to become overly disappointed with others’ normal, everyday human mistakes and can even turn bitter about them. Yet they don’t see the same behaviors in themselves. I don’t know much about narcissism, but rather suspect that these clients might be relatives (so to speak) of your student.
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Bret L. Simmons Reply:
August 21st, 2010 at 12:08 pm
Thanks for sharing this insight, MJ! One thing I did not mention about the student’s note to me was the self-serving bias. Any thing good this person saw in their performance was of course attributable to their talent and effort, and any shortcoming I identified in my subjective evaluation of the performance was a character and performance flaw on my part. While I think most behavior we observe is driven by systems, in the case you and I describe, I do think it is a personality issue. Thanks! Bret
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Hi Bret, there are a few thoughts going through my mind about this.
First, your student has presumed not only to speak for himself but for others as well. That is presumptuous at best.
Second, to me, placing so much importance on the grade suggests a misguided focus that is worrying.
Third, and most importantly this student has failed to demonstrate the character it takes to be a good leader… of anybody.
With this in mind, I agree with him. An A- is certainly unwarranted. He should have received a failing grade…and a mirror.
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Bret L. Simmons Reply:
August 21st, 2010 at 3:02 pm
Concur with all your points, Gwen. It’s really a fascinating case. In this student’s mind, they are the epitome of self-leadership. That fact that the person stood up to big, bad me would reinforce this person’s self deception. You and I and so many others realize the truth that one’s greatest enemy is the one in the mirror, but this person sees the enemy as “out there”. It is very difficult to reach those folks – their defense systems are very elaborate. Thanks, Gwen! Bret
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Bret,
That is quite a response. I recall myself giving an instructor in college a very harsh review even after getting an A in the course. My reaction was not a response to my grade but instead the disappointment in my lack of growth because of this class.
I find in my current position I often deal with sales people or clients which have unspoken expectations that are often unmet. This student obviously had expectations unmet and chose a very aggressive path in voicing their lack of satisfaction.
I always find it best for me to communicate with the client and try to understand where they are coming from in their reaction. It has helped me grow in my profession.
I will agree with your thoughts in that this student is weel on their way to becoming a very dissatisfied individual adn employee. If you can’t communicate directly with people you will never resolve your anger and disappointment.
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Bret L. Simmons Reply:
August 21st, 2010 at 3:46 pm
Welcome, Charlie, and thanks for sharing your thoughts. When I was a student, I tried identify what I needed to get out of any and every class and then held myself accountable for getting what I needed, independent of how well or how poorly the instructor performed. I tried to adopt the attitude that I would never leave a class thinking “I didn’t learn anything.” If I did, then shame on me. Thanks! Bret
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We live in interesting times.
First off… I don’t think for a minute any of his accusations are merited but I always find something of value when talking these things through.
Whenever I see comments like those you’ve outlined my first reaction is… “what did I do that would cause them to feel that way?”
I, with fairly good results, always start with the idea that there are two sides to any issue and I can only control one side. If there is an issue, and there certainly seems to be one here, then sitting down, listening and evaluating the input is the only way for anything to get better – them or you.
Did you make any effort to sit down and let the person air their point of view? Is there anything to be learned from that exchange?
Just curious as this would be a great case study for future managers.
Good luck!
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Bret L. Simmons Reply:
August 22nd, 2010 at 9:12 am
Thanks for weighing in, Paul! Concur 100% there are two sides to every story, and there is more to this story than I can share. I’ve tried VERY hard to conceal any specific details about the student. This e-mail came at the end of an exchange where the person first stated they disagreed with my grade and asked for an explanation. When I provided the detailed explanation, it was not what the person wanted to hear. This person realized they could not get what they wanted, so instead of saying “Ok, I understand, thanks,” they instead chose to insult me. Unlike the workplace, when a class is over its over for everyone. This person knows they will never have to deal with me again and will probably never see me again, so I think that played a role in justifying (for the person) the bad behavior. My point is we are creatures of habitual patterns. I can guarantee you that the root cause of the behavior this person displayed with me is manifesting itself in other areas of the person’s professional and personal life. Thanks, Paul! Bret
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Knowing you I should have guessed there was more back story. Real character is revealed when your actions won’t have any consequences – as this person displayed.
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Bret L. Simmons Reply:
August 22nd, 2010 at 1:02 pm
Let me ask you, Paul, about narcissistic employees and incentives. How might you expect incentives to affect more narcissistic employees, and how does the highly narcissistic employee affect an incentive program? Bret
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Paul Hebert Reply:
August 22nd, 2010 at 3:25 pm
Great question. I can’t say I’ve done any real research into the question.
Most of the time I would say that narcissistic employees in traditional incentive programs will play until they see they aren’t earning – then they drop out and declare the program “uncool” hoping to get some support. If the program is about individual objectives it doesn’t have too much affect on the whole.
However, in many programs that select the top 10% as award earners (not that I recommend these structures) they do go to a lot of effort to earn them – and if they can’t, find reasons they should qualify – ie: market conditions, top client had a bad year, my boss, etc.
Most of the time, if the person has a been a top performer in the past the client management team will find a way to get them the award – so in effect they reinforce the bad behavior – ensuring more of it in the future.
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Bret L. Simmons Reply:
August 22nd, 2010 at 3:30 pm
Great reply, Paul. I also bet they don’t do too well in team based incentive systems where rewards are based on how well they work with others. Thanks! Bret
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Unbelievable. I’m in shock. I am embarrassed this person is my peer. And it’s entirely possible that I know this person, since I just finished a summer course with you. I apologize that he or she insulted you. You are truly one of the finest professors I have ever had. I have learned from you, and more importantly, APPLIED what I learned.
I find this student’s complaint incredibly ironic: I’ve taken two of your courses, and they feature the most objective grading system of any course I have ever taken. You make it very clear that there is a SYSTEM at work in grading, and outline what students need to do to succeed within the system. The way your courses are structured, it’s entirely up to the student whether he or she receives an A or not. It’s all dependent on how much you pay attention to and follow the system. If you do the work with the assigned parameters, and complete it on the assigned time schedule, you will receive an A.
I’ve learned so much about being a manager from this structure. It hammers home one of your key tenets: Behavior is a function of person and environment/system. If you don’t like the behavior, change the system.
Well, Bret, this person is obviously an outlier and you’ll have to chalk it up to that. Your system, in the main, works. You’re right: I hope I’m never managed by this person … or have to manage him or her.
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Bret L. Simmons Reply:
August 22nd, 2010 at 3:26 pm
I appreciate your kind words, Kate. Obviously, I can’t say much in order to protect the identity of the student. I will concur with you that this person’s behavior is an outlier. In all my years of teaching I have NEVER gotten a flaming e-mail like that from a single student – MBA or undergraduate. I’ve met around two thousand students, and this one is indeed an outlier. This is one of those rare instances where the person’s behavior was driven more by their personality than by my system. Thanks, Kate! Bret
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Classic ‘prima donna’ syndrome. ‘PD’s are actually quite a management challenge. On one hand, they *are* high performers, but on the other hand, they are also high maintenance. As a result, their ‘net’ contribution is always a bit challenged. And performance management (eg. grading) is a real challenge because they *are* good…just not quite a good as they think they are. As a result, they turn what should be a positive message into a negative one and most conventional wisdom about how to manage the situation goes out the window. Also, PDs are more prevalent in younger age groups where they have not yet had the chance to develop a deep understanding of context and perspective.
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Bret L. Simmons Reply:
August 22nd, 2010 at 6:24 pm
Welcome back, Bruce! I hope you are well. I think you hit the nail on the head with PD. I hope folks find their way down to your comment reflecting your years of management experience. Knowing the system you previously worked in, I’m sure you ran into a few PDs over time
Thanks! Bret
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Bret, If this poor student’s objective was to make you squirm, I recommend that s/he take more courses in thinking and writing.
I can’t find a single shred of evidence in the message to support the claim that you are a poor teacher. Nor is there any suggested corrective actions.
If this student had a real case — which I doubt — s/he did a terrible job communicating it.
I become nervous thinking that this student may become a manager someday. If they do, call Bob Sutton and let him know. This student looks like they are on their way to becoming fodder for the second edition of his book The No Asshole Rule.
All the best,
Steve
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Bret L. Simmons Reply:
August 22nd, 2010 at 6:28 pm
Welcome back, Steve. The issue is really not my skill as a teacher. That’s a smoke screen that folks use to never accept full responsibility for themselves and their results. Even if I was a total loser, which I am not, it still would not justify the attitude and behavior this person exhibited. Concur about the Sutton fodder
Thanks! Bret
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Steven M. Smith Reply:
August 22nd, 2010 at 7:06 pm
Bret, I can understand why you would interpret the issue as a failure by the student to accept responsibility for their grade. I suspect you are right.
By posting this student’s feedback, if s/he reads your blog, you have exposed them to third-party feedback about their feedback. That action may have turned this into a learning opportunity for them, which I hope has happened.
The true narcissist will fume and plot their revenge. If they do so, there isn’t any help I or anyone else can offer them.
But if there is any chance that this was a healthy student having a bad day, I would hope that they would apologize and tell you what they would like to have happen and why. And I hope you would forgive them and consider whatever they say.
I am concerned about labeling this student. I am working hard to give this student’s communication a generous interpretation. That message was the only communication I have seen. You have experienced more. I respect your opinion.
Best regards,
Steve
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Bret L. Simmons Reply:
August 22nd, 2010 at 7:38 pm
I hear what you are saying about labeling, Steve, and I agree. I think it is very unhelpful to use derogatory labels. But I think it is necessary to use descriptive terms to understand behavior. My use of the term narcissist is descriptive and not derogatory. And I tried to be careful in my post to simply describe what happened. I don’t think it is necessary to avoid calling this bad behavior in a matter-of-fact way. And you are correct, there is more to this story than I could share. Thanks for the help making sense of this, Steve! Bret
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Hi Bret,
It’s interesting that you’d get this email so soon after you wrote about how students – and consequently employees – should take ownership of their own failings or failures as opposed to simply pointing a finger at those in positions of authority.
One thing that did stand out for me in this email was how this student kept insisting how you needed to improve how you teach without giving any real substantiative suggestions on what he/she found problematic or which led to the challenges they had in your class.
I’m sure many of us have had such criticisms levelled in our direction, but here lies a great lesson of taking time to let the initial emotional reaction subside and focus on more on the substance of the message. Of course, in this case, there’s clearly no substance as the student offers no suggestions/ideas of what they found you in error as a teacher, something that’s especially noticeable when they bring up comparisons to other professors. Had they provided some points of reference then they’d surely look a lot less like a person trying to pass off responsibility for their perceived failure and more like someone whose interested in improving the process.
I also have to agree with some of the other commentators that I wouldn’t be surprised to see this person in some management position in the future. Unfortunately, there are still enough people out there who do believe the self-promotion others spread. Hopefully, he/she is in the minority of those exiting out of MBA programs these days as we definitely don’t need more of these types in positions of authority.
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Bret L. Simmons Reply:
August 23rd, 2010 at 12:31 pm
Excellent observations, Tanveer. It was a consistent message in my class, as it is in my blog posts, to assume full responsibility for yourself and stop blaming others for your shortcomings. It’s easy to describe the error this student made in the communication, but not so easy to explain it. I appreciate comments from you and the rest of the folks to help me sort through this. Thanks! Bret
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It would appear as though you are the unprofessional one. This student wrote an e-mail directly to you with their concerns and you are the one who is clearly trying to publically humiliate the student by writing this post, not the other way around.
Are your actions professional? Is this your leadership style at work? I suspect that this type of behavior on your part has something to do with the students concerns. The remarkably unprofessional behavior is coming from you and it is scary to think that you are teaching student how to be leaders. Is the public defamation of others a topic that you teach in your courses?
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Bret L. Simmons Reply:
August 23rd, 2010 at 6:55 pm
Welcome, Daniel. I have to respectfully point out that not only did I not use the student’s name, I very carefully concealed all information about the student (e.g. gender, semester enrolled). It cannot be defamation and humiliation when the person is unnamed and their comments carefully edited. But you are welcome to your opinion, and I appreciate you taking the time to share it with me here. Thanks! Bret
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Bret,
I’ve already added my two-cents worth to this never-ending stream of replies, but how about making it four-cents? I admire your patience and capacity for respecfully replying to your readers’ comments. But then one could argue that you asked for it
I’m frankly blown away by how some people have dissected your original brief post of an incident, in which you simply attempted to make a point. Perhaps it’s a reflection of our reality show-driven mentality that we have to continually probe what was intended by a comment or incident. I would ask: are the people who are commenting actually listening to one another, or merely wanting to vent their opinions and frustrations related to their own issues.
You’ll need a vacation, Bret, when this cycle completes itself. Keep your chin up! Jim
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Bret L. Simmons Reply:
August 23rd, 2010 at 10:26 pm
Ha, I did literally ask for it, Jim. I’ve found the exchange very fascinating. It’s tough to post negative comments about yourself. The easy way out would have been to say nothing. But I really do want to understand better how and why things work. It’s been a good exchange. Thanks for contributing! Bret
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Hello Bret,
I recently completed my BSBA online and was completely amazed at the lack of self awareness of some of my classmates. The requirements were clearly stated at the beginning of each class. They would not post at all or not following posting protocol. They often did not take part in the required group projects and then would be very vocal when they received a failing grade. I would be very discouraged trying to teach those students.
Frankly, a majority of those students should not have been taking classes at that level in the first place. College is not for everyone and there should be appropriate pathways with decent wage expectations for those not cut out for the academic path. The world needs all skills to survive and progress.
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Bret L. Simmons Reply:
September 7th, 2010 at 12:28 pm
Welcome, Julie, and congratulations on your degree! Believe me, I hear exactly what you are saying. Frankly, I am always thankful to have students like you. Thanks for sharing! Bret
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