Here is another video from the shores of beautiful Lake Tahoe. I did not want to miss the opportunity to talk about leadership, the subject I am most passionate about. This is the first of two videos on leadership I made that morning, so stay tuned for the second one.
I got this concept of leadership from the famous book by Warren Bennis and Burt Nanus entitled “Leaders: Strategies for Taking Charge.” I don’t remember when I read it, but it was first published in 1985 so I have probably had this idea about leadership guiding my thoughts and behavior for about 20 years. I love it. It takes a minute to memorize but a lifetime to master. It resonates with me and I use it daily to help guide my behavior.
I realize some of you might be inclined to hate this idea of leadership as much as I love it, so I would encourage you to leave a comment and share your thinking; however, please watch the video and listen to what I have to say first.
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Where do people (relationships) come into the equation for leadership for you?
I agree that there is a time and a place for both managing and leading, and it isn’t possible to be just one or the other.
In my mind, effective action and efficiency are essential but leadership isn’t possible without participation by followers. And followers don’t follow unless you’ve created great relationships.
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Bret L. Simmons Reply:
November 3rd, 2009 at 8:44 am
Glad you asked about relationship, MJ. I talk about that tomorrow in my Part 2, so stay tuned. I concur with you that relationship is critical, but before all of that comes right thinking. Can’t form right relationship without right perspective, and what we ask followers to do is critical and must reflect “the right thing to do”. Thanks! Bret
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I love this distinction between leadership and management, Bret. It’s a crisp restatement of Drucker and works in the real world. It’s a great way to differentiate two kinds of work that all bosses do.
Alas, Bennis and Nanus then went on to turn it into a distinction between types of people. they tell us that “leaders” do this, while “managers” do that. That’s one of the most pernicious bits of management writing ever because it takes us down a trail where we exalt “leaders” and belittle “managers” and don’t even mention “supervisors.”
I posted about that change in detail in “More Leaders vs Managers Nonesense” at
http://blog.threestarleadership.com/2009/05/05/more-leaders-v-managers-nonsense.aspx
I love the leadership/management/supervision distinction as a way to define and discuss kinds of work. I despise the leaders/managers distinction between kinds of people as both devisive and distracting.
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Bret L. Simmons Reply:
November 3rd, 2009 at 9:13 am
I knew you had strong feelings on this, Wally, so I am glad you shared your thoughts. I would encourage folks to click on your link to see more of what you have to say. I think if you watch my video you will see that I discuss this as kinds of work people do, not kinds of people they are. But if you only do one kind of work, e.g. management, then you don’t deserve to be called a leader. If you never think about possibility, change, direction, and effectiveness, all you can ever “be” is a manager. I personally don’t mind that being devisive, but I am iconoclastic by nature. Thanks! Bret
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I don’t have even the tiniest disagreement with the way you treat this, Bret. You consistently discuss this as different kinds of work, as opposed to different kinds of people. The fact is that if you’re responsible for the performance of a group you have to do leadership work and management work and supervision work. You have no choice about this. You only have a choice about what you will do and how well.
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Bret L. Simmons Reply:
November 3rd, 2009 at 7:05 pm
Concur 100%, and well said. As your time permits, can you point my readers to a link at your site where you discuss the difference between management work and supervision work? Thanks! Bret
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Wally Bock Reply:
November 4th, 2009 at 8:11 am
Here’s the link to the post you were thinking of. It’s titled “Boss’s Work: Leadership, Management, and Supervision.”
http://blog.threestarleadership.com/2009/05/19/bosss-work-leadership-management-and-supervision.aspx
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Bret L. Simmons Reply:
November 4th, 2009 at 9:47 am
Thanks, Wally!
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Aloha Bret,
I’m one who has always been irritated by this distinction for the reason that you and Wally discuss within this conversation – like Wally, I was dismayed when “Bennis and Nanus then went on to turn it into a distinction between types of people” for I too prefer to talk about managing and leading as verbs which all managers can seize. I go as far as calling everyone managers, and supervisors and leaders are org chart titles I stay away from as much as I can (though I do admire Wally’s care for those in the conventional role). Second, we all need to focus on what we believe to be the ‘right’ things.
I did listen patiently throughout your video as you requested though, and I do believe we are like-minded with this. I also concur with the foundational aspects of management you speak of as being so important: They create both the confidence and credibility that moves someone into having more courage for leadership.
I offer up another distinction: In Managing with Aloha we work on leading to create energy (in a visionary way) and on managing to channel the energy (in a highly productive, and personally meaningful way) – again: All managers work on both, and striving for Pono (the Hawaiian value of rightness).
What is best of all? That we question versus blindly accepting any of this, and that we have these conversations which challenge us all to be better, so mahalo, thank you for this discussion.
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Bret L. Simmons Reply:
November 3rd, 2009 at 10:18 pm
Aloha, Rosa! Very interesting new distinction that you introduce to the discussion. Can you tell me where you learned this? I do so strongly concur with questioning and challenge. Thanks for your thoughts and you are welcome here any time! Bret
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Rosa Say Reply:
November 3rd, 2009 at 10:41 pm
Hmmm… trying to think how to respond to your question without sounding awfully me-centered Bret! I’ve been a student of management and leadership for a long time, and I guess this distinction is what all of MWA is for me; an operational philosophy intended to make workplace cultures healthier. It came from learning from the gurus, but then being blessed to have a service laboratory in which I could practice it all; I was a hotel exec for almost 30 years. Thus I came to believe that people-energy is our most important resource in business – more than time, more than financial capital (for energy creates those two things). People are not necessarily our greatest asset; energetic people are. This is probably the best/ most recent article I have written about it if you’d like to take a look:
http://talkingstory.org/2009/06/3-ways-managers-create-energetic-workplaces/
Mahalo Bret, I do feel welcomed here. Thank you for the question and opportunity to better explain.
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Bret L. Simmons Reply:
November 4th, 2009 at 12:34 am
Thanks for providing the additional insight, Rosa. I hope folks will stop by your site to check you out and read the link to your article, which is very interesting.
Just a BTW, when my daughter plays volleyball and someone on the other team serves the ball into the net, my buddy and I always yell Mahalo!
Thanks! Bret
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Yep…absolutely love that piece from Bennis. So much so that it is the core theme of my own blog on Leadership and Management. My own personal motto (displayed on my blog and email signature) is “Do the right things right” which is inspired by this Bennis quote.
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Bret L. Simmons Reply:
November 5th, 2009 at 12:57 am
I like that, Bruce. Thanks for contributing to this conversation! Bret
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